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 Non-Square Shapes; Hexes, Octs, Others-

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BillSF9c
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Join date : 2012-01-27

PostSubject: Non-Square Shapes; Hexes, Octs, Others-   Fri Jan 27, 2012 5:17 am

Warré admitted that a cylindrical shape of a tree was thermodynamically more ideal, but a square simpler to construct of wood, and had longevity over materials such as straw. His aim was a sustainable, simple design, termed "The People's Hive." In more modern times, power tools and their comparatively low prices, make these tools rather readily accessible to the common man who desires them, and shapes more closely approximating the efficiency of a cylinder, readily possible.

As one approaches a cylindrical shape in the typical fashion of multi-faceted sides, difficulty grows, parts count grows, and one sees diminishing returns in terms of increased thermodynamic efficiency over the next-lower side-count version. When plotted, a knee is seen on the curve.

Idea I suggest that we argue the many facets of this issue; How far to go, and why.
And that we attempt to determine mathematical reasons for these facet-counts quantitatively, as well as qualitatively.

As construction and joinery enter into this to some small degree, it may necessarily becomes a small side-issue... I.e.; Comparing a Hex[agon] of 2x/4cm wall thickness to that of an Oct[agon] of 1x/2cm material, (each with different ways & difficulies in joinery,) may be enlightening in terms of heating and insulation an of labor spent or required toolry.

I will begin by mentioning that Dr. David Heaf showed a Seeley/et al study of tree cavities,
as having a wall thickness of about 4"/10cm.

Question Some web or home based software programs may assist in drawing these designs. Perhaps that is appropriate here? Or shall it be a different Topic, altogether? While they may seem to be a mere Link and kudo or raspberry, here or there, Member How-To may evolve and cause a larger amount of traffic should they become a well-appreciated and more detailed Topic. As I understand it, a portion of this forum's purpose is to separate and control, threads.

At this time I prefer the Hex for appearance, but the Oct for carrying more (4 or 5) equally-sized TBs/TopBars. (If I remember my designs correctly, and if the TBs are placed such that more are perpendicular to one flat wall, and uses either 8 or 9 TBs, respectively.) But that's anOTHER Topic. ;>)

BillSF9c
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Bush_84
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PostSubject: Re: Non-Square Shapes; Hexes, Octs, Others-   Fri Jan 27, 2012 5:36 am

I've always viewed the Warre as something easy to build. I think goes beyond the capability of most people. If somebody wants to take the time, effort, and cash to build one then I say go for it. I am sure it will be a fun endeavor and I am sure you will be happy with the results. I believe that the majority of Warre users will stick more or less with the standard design.
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BillSF9c
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PostSubject: Non-Square Shapes; Hexes, Octs, Others-   Fri Jan 27, 2012 5:50 am

Bush_84 wrote:
I believe that the majority of Warre users will stick more or less with the standard design.

I'm sure you are correct. Though a Hungarian commercial fellow has done hundreds of Hexes. Obviously, "This Bud's not for you." <G>

You *might* yet be interested in wall-thickness?
Or, is that a simple, 2cm/1x for you as well?
Your basic criteria, to not deviate? Or location allows the thinner wood?

San Francisco Bay Area, USDA 9c/10a... Almost no frost.
But think closer to a tree cavity wall-thickness, is not a bad thing.
Nor do I feel an advanced shape can be anything but good, except perhaps for those who have need of sheer volume of hive count.

BillSF9c
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Bush_84
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PostSubject: Re: Non-Square Shapes; Hexes, Octs, Others-   Fri Jan 27, 2012 12:35 pm

I actually use 2x wood in my hives. I am not somebody who refuses to deviate from the Warre original. I've always just viewed the octo and hex hives as way to much work. But again if somebody wanted to make one good for them. I'm not against them or against other people making them. I just don't believe most will deviate from the standard box.
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J. Ferguson (Admin)
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PostSubject: Re: Non-Square Shapes; Hexes, Octs, Others-   Fri Jan 27, 2012 2:34 pm

I think if you deviate very far you have in a sense invented a different style of hive and should call it something besides a Warré.

For myself this first year I am going to build as close to the drawings as possible and as I gain experience I may deviate and look for ways to innovate.

Wall thickness is a good topic for discussion because it encompasses two problems. What to do in climates that are not like France and what to do when metric materials are not avialable. For example I bought 3/4" pine and 3/4" cedar and they are not the same thickness. The cedar was thicker because it was only planed on one side.
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Bush_84
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PostSubject: Re: Non-Square Shapes; Hexes, Octs, Others-   Sat Jan 28, 2012 3:46 am

I would say that the thicker wood may not make a huge wintering difference, but I figure that it helps some with insulation and it's a lot cheaper. So the pros outweigh the cons (weight is a con).
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BillSF9c
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PostSubject: Deviation From a Warré   Tue Jan 31, 2012 12:51 am

J. Ferguson (Admin) wrote:
I think if you deviate very far you have in a sense invented a different style of hive and should call it something besides a Warré.
<snip.

Until what comprises a Warré is stated, one cannot know if one has deviated at all.
How much is form-factor; and how much is procedural in nature...

BillSF9c
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